Author Topic: Upgrading to 100w headlights! (Read 1389 times)

Aceman · « **on:** 30, December, 2008, 02:04:08 AM »

My toy, the 2004 Yamaha R1, in blue, runs separate bulbs for main and dipped beam. I'm considering replacing all 4 bulbs for 100w bulbs.

What should I be considering in doing this? I've heard of things such as them possibly being so hot, that they could melt the headlight covers. Have any of you got first hand experience of this?

Many years ago I changed the single H4 bulb in my GPz1100-A1 to a 120w/90w and it made an impressive difference. I don't want to go down the HID path as that is about £70 per bulb, plus it has the inconvenience of mounting a ballast box, about the size of a cigarette packet, for each bulb.

So I'm looking at item# 360119078146 on Ebay, costing £4.95 per bulb. Any sensible (yes Trouty, sensible) advice would be greatly appreaciated.

TallGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** 30, December, 2008, 12:28:51 PM »

Maybe teaching you to suck eggs but consider the current capability of the wire. Std 65W bulb will draw 5.5A, a 100W bulb will draw 8.5A. The wire used in modern applications is now thin wall and most likely rated at 7A (a common size) and this will be stressed and overheat. Hopefully the headlights are relay controlled so switching shouldn't be a concern.

Some HID conversions are not legal because of the resulting light pattern not staying within specified parameters. The was an article on the DVLA site but I can't find it now.

Code Sample

Edit for spellink

Mr Rizla · « **Reply #2 on:** 30, December, 2008, 12:37:20 PM »

have seen an r1headlight in a puddle of plastic, so id recommend you investigate this thoroughly 1st, maybe hid is the way to go.

Aceman · « **Reply #3 on:** 30, December, 2008, 04:57:18 PM »

Quote (TallGuy @ Dec. 30 2008,12:28)

Maybe teaching you to suck eggs but consider the current capability of the wire. Std 65W bulb will draw 5.5A, a 100W bulb will draw 8.5A.

Thank you Colin.

You're answer is educational, so you are teaching me, just not to suck eggs though. You raised a most valuable point, one that I wouldn't have considered, as I'm not an electrician. I'll call Yamaha UK to ask about the wiring when they reopen Monday.

Martin

pieman · « **Reply #4 on:** 02, January, 2009, 06:11:21 AM »

if you only ride for fun what are you doing out at night anyway? I hate riding at night!

Aceman · « **Reply #5 on:** 02, January, 2009, 12:03:23 PM »

Quote (pieman @ Jan. 02 2009,06:11)

if you only ride for fun what are you doing out at night anyway? I hate riding at night!

When I had a 120W/90w bulb in my GPz1100 and cars wouldn't give way on lane 3 of motorways, I found that a quick flash of high beam would totally illuminate those cars, even in the middle of a hot and bright summers days. It served me well as a safety measure, being able to warn other road users of my presence. Plus at night, it was brilliant - literally. You could actually feel the heat from it about 18" away. So I could possibly rent out my services as a mobile tanning service.

I'm going to be doing some riding on the continent this year, and depending where I go, I may end up doing some night riding anyway. I'm going to France with a group in Easter, but they're only going from Good Friday to Easter Sunday, and I'm keen on staying out there for about a week. I wonder if I should bike down to Italy

'>

pieman · « **Reply #6 on:** 05, January, 2009, 12:36:16 PM »

italy was lovely. Well worth a trip. I spent the whole time wishing i'd had a bike with me!

spinlondon · « **Reply #7 on:** 22, January, 2009, 11:28:37 PM »

One problem, is that it is illegal, another is that unless you use a relay, you can burn out the switches. Also if you have a passing light button that turns on the high beam whilst the dipped beam is on, you can melt the wires. Should double up the earth wire from the headlamp.

Aceman · « **Reply #8 on:** 22, January, 2009, 11:43:52 PM »

Thank you TallGuy & spinlondon. I've decided against the 100w bulbs. I spoke with Yamaha technical department a coupld of days ago and they could not confirm the current of the headlight wires. I can't see why the heck a technical department cannot tell me about their own product, but he couldn't confirm that is was safe to do either. He did mention relays on the swithch too, but I don't understand this, and so I'm not going to progress this idea. The comments that both of you made had a massive impact and only if Yamaha could have confirmed that it would have been 100% safe would I have gone forward with this.

However, I'm now thinking of changing the sidelights to be blue. The bulbs are the 501 style/shape. Yet they vary in price for a pair from 99p + £1.00 p&p on Fleabay to £9.99 free p&p for the LED versions. These I could get in red, green, amber or blue, and it's the blue or green that I'm considering.

Any further comments & advice would be gratefully received.

Darkmonster · « **Reply #9 on:** 23, January, 2009, 01:26:05 AM »

Quote (Aceman @ Jan. 22 2009,15:43)

I've decided against the 100w bulbs. I spoke with Yamaha technical department a couple of days ago and they could not confirm the current of the headlight wires. I can't see why the heck a technical department cannot tell me about their own product, but he couldn't confirm that is was safe to do either.

I'm now thinking of changing the sidelights to be blue. The bulbs are the 501 style/shape. Yet they vary in price for a pair from 99p + £1.00 p&p on Fleabay to £9.99 free p&p for the LED versions. These I could get in red, green, amber or blue, and it's the blue or green that I'm considering.

Any further comments & advice would be gratefully received.

Yamaha's tech dept aren't gonna advise you on illegal stuff Martin, thats my guess..

As for the sidelights....

They are illegal....forward facing lights have to be white, rear ones red...

Not that it stops anyone...just a heads up

'>

Darkmonster · « **Reply #10 on:** 23, January, 2009, 01:26:51 AM »

Oh.....and I ran 90/130's in the Monster with NO ill effects whatsoever...I just put the bulbs in ':p'

The Triumph has 55/100's in now...same thing, threw em in & turned em on.

Matt zx9 · « **Reply #11 on:** 23, January, 2009, 05:42:29 AM »

Coloured lights are for chumps... or policemen

'>

Darkmonster · « **Reply #12 on:** 23, January, 2009, 08:00:24 AM »

Quote (Matt zx9 @ Jan. 22 2009,21:42)

Coloured lights are for chumps... or policemen

'>

Wasn't that what I said Matt?

'>

How you doing?

TallGuy · « **Reply #13 on:** 23, January, 2009, 11:07:21 AM »

Quote (Darkmonster @ Jan. 23 2009,01:26)

As for the sidelights....

They are illegal....forward facing lights have to be white, rear ones red...

Not that it stops anyone...just a heads up

You are correct that sidelights must be white as must headlights (ignoring the now obsolete yellow european clause)

However the law has been challenged on several occasions by chavs in their pimpmobiles fitting auxillary coloured lights to their vehicles.

The law in simplified terms it that you can't have a forward facing coloured light illuminated unless it is an auxillary light and these can only be illuminated once the headlight is also illuminated.
You can only have rear facing red lights for stop and tail, amber for indicators and white for the purpose of reversing.
There is a whole act called the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations which can be found on opsi.gov.uk if you are really interested.

The US law is somewhat stricter in certain states which have made clear rear light clusters illegal.

Aceman · « **Reply #14 on:** 23, January, 2009, 06:14:21 PM »

Thanks TallGuy - That means it's perfectly legal for me to use coloured auxillary lights on my toy. So I've just installed a couple of blue ones.

TallGuy · « **Reply #15 on:** 23, January, 2009, 06:38:50 PM »

Quote (Aceman @ Jan. 23 2009,18:14)

Thanks TallGuy - That means it's perfectly legal for me to use coloured auxillary light on my toy. So I've just installed a couple of blue ones.

Legal yes as long as they comply with the RVLR 1988 and The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 S.I. 1986/1078 and any subsequent amendments. Colour is not the only criteria which needs to be considered.

However legal additional coloured lights may be they will attract unnecessary attention.

Mr Rizla · « **Reply #16 on:** 23, January, 2009, 07:05:29 PM »

did somone mention "blue lights"

'>
Never been stoped for mine

'> mind you Porkscratchin did insist on having a look closer one night

'>

Aceman · « **Reply #17 on:** 24, January, 2009, 12:41:44 AM »

Quote (TallGuy @ Jan. 23 2009,11:07)

...you can't have a forward facing coloured light illuminated unless it is an auxillary light and these can only be illuminated once the headlight is also illuminated.

TallGuy - Help! I cannot see where this is mentioned. Can you point this out to me please?

TallGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 24, January, 2009, 11:13:27 AM »

Quote (Aceman @ Jan. 24 2009,00:41)

Quote (TallGuy @ Jan. 23 2009,11:07)

...you can't have a forward facing coloured light illuminated unless it is an auxillary light and these can only be illuminated once the headlight is also illuminated.

TallGuy - Help! I cannot see where this is mentioned. Can you point this out to me please?

This is part of the problem, it's a 'loophole' or rather how the lawyers have bent the original intention of the Act by saying what has not been excluded by specific reference in the act must therefore be legal.

It is one area where there is daily debate within police forces across the contry as the courts are not supporting the Police to plug these ambiguities in the law and get it back to the position which DM and a lot of my generation beleived it was.

Road Traffic Law is a minefield and spured on by a peak in the Kit Car industry in the 70's and early 80's various regulations were drafted up. Construction and Use is the biggest 'checklist' of what is permitted but unfortunitly is not available online and has been amended lots of times as commercial manufacturers make changes to thier vehicles which are not compliant with the law for example the following would not be legal in the original act:

High level brake lights (too close to c/l and too high)
Side repeater indicators (a light not facing fore or aft)
Rear Light clusters in the C pillar (too high)
Citroen steering headlights (a moving light)
Clear light units with coloured bulbs (the lens colour was specified)
Volvo amber running lights (an amber light which is not an indicator and lights facing to the side)
Adaptive driving lights (not acting as a pair of lights)
ABS linked hazard flashers (use on a moving vehicle)

Getting back to the original question before my ramblings get the better of me, the function, position and colour of sidelights and headlights is defined in C&UR and I beleive everyone understands this. The function of auxillary lights is also specified in there and this covers lights such as fog lights and driving lights. Fog lights must not illuminate without dipped headlight and must extinguish if hi-beam selected. Driving lights must only illuminate if high beam selected. There are also categories for auxillary lights and warning beacons which start overlapping into the RVLR and this is where the lawyers got a hold and read between the lines.

I can't give you specific reference or guidance on what you can do where I know it is flying in the face of the original intention of the regulations as all this will do is potentially lead you into trouble through attracting unnessary attention.
I do know what you can't do as that is defined in law so if you have a specific intended modification I can advise on it's legality.

Darkmonster · « **Reply #19 on:** 24, January, 2009, 04:35:52 PM »

Martin, you also don't ride like an asshole, which will reduce the 'Police interest' in you....See what happens at MOT time...

Aceman · « **Reply #20 on:** 24, January, 2009, 04:50:29 PM »

Thank you Dave - I can feel the love here.

I didn't mention why I wanted to do this. I'm part of ELAM (IAM) and when riding in convoy, they use the "Marker System" ( which can be seen here http://www.elam.org.uk/Social_run_etiquette.html ). Although it's an essential responsibility, being the TEC denies the opportunity to overtake other riders, and may be thought of as the most passive position to take. I've only been out on three rides with ELAM and recognise although I don't really want to, I think it's only fair that I take a turn at being the TEC.

The problem that I've observed in riding this system is that a lot of the time, the #2 rider (when acting as a marker) doesn't recognise that the TEC until very close indeed. The TEC usually beeps/waves/both which must be frustrating for him. By having immediately identifiably unique headlights, the role of TEC would be less mentally demanding, and far easier for the #2's to recognise him at a greater distance, therefore aiding progress of riding within the group.

As you can see, my objective here is not to be a poseur, but an aid to IAM convoy riding techniques. What a nice guy eh!

Mr Rizla · « **Reply #21 on:** 24, January, 2009, 05:11:17 PM »

Quote (Aceman @ Jan. 24 2009,16:50)

my objective here is not to be a poseur

am i gettin got at me thinks

'>

Aceman · « **Reply #22 on:** 24, January, 2009, 05:19:13 PM »

Quote (Mr Rizla @ Jan. 24 2009,17:11)

Quote (Aceman @ Jan. 24 2009,16:50)

my objective here is not to be a poseur

am i gettin got at me thinks

'>

Certainly not Ken. If I wanted to have a dig at you, it would be with regard to spelling & punctuation

'>

I just didn't like Matt zx9 implying I'm a "chump".

Matt zx9 · « **Reply #23 on:** 24, January, 2009, 09:57:07 PM »

Quote (Aceman @ Jan. 24 2009,17:19)

I just didn't like Matt zx9 implying I'm a "chump".

You were asking about opinions of coloured lights...

They confuse oncoming traffic.
They annoy the police (especially the blue lights).
The insurance company will use it against you in the event of a night-time accident.
They serve no purpose except for dubious aesthetic qualities.

My particular dislike of them comes from a night on a dark bit of the road to brighton (the bit where you've turned off the A24) and having a number of bikes coming towards me with various coloured lights. The fraction of a second it took to work out the red, white and blue lights were in fact motorbikes coming towards me was almost enough to have me off the road, and dangerously close to ploughing head on into them as I was trying to work out whether to go to the left or right of these randomly coloured lights.

Actually, I was nowhere near having an accident, but only because - if I say so myself - I have got very quick reactions on a bike and I was going a "suitable" speed for the conditions. A less experienced rider, or someone going a bit quicker, and it likely would have been two or more dead motorcyclists.

I stand by my opinion.

TallGuy · « **Reply #24 on:** 24, January, 2009, 11:29:20 PM »

Quote (Matt zx9 @ Jan. 24 2009,21:57)

I stand by my opinion.

And a valid opinion it is too. There is no requirement to have coloured lights other than as part of emergency warning equipment and there are strict controls on them such that people know what they mean.

The marker system can be done in the same way that MoD convoys were done using blue and green flags or vests to designate point and TEC.

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Author Topic: Upgrading to 100w headlights! (Read 1389 times)