Topic: Driver knocked over my parked bike

[Aceman]

Saturday 23rd Feb, my bike was legally parked opposite Stoke Newington police station between two cars. within a couple of minutes of it being parked there, the driver of the car in front of my bike returns to her car. Even though there is plenty of room in front of her to pull out, she reverses back and knocks my bike over and it ends up falling onto the bonnet of the car on the other side of my bike. We went into the police station and a member of staff verified that the driver is who she claims to be and that her car, registered in her husbands name, is insured. After swapping details, the driver calls her husband on her mobile and tells me that her husband wants to meet with me and settle up independantly of insurance. Bearing in mind that she knocked my bike onto another car that has been damaged as a direct result of this, where do I stand?  The driver has admitted that it was her fault. I am considering accepting a cash settlement. I am concerned about the other car that got damaged when my bike was knocked on it.

I have 14 years NCB that is protocted. My bike is a 2004 model R1, and has damaged the the tail piece, tank, left rear indicator, left side of all the fairing sections, right side middle section of the fairing, broken left mirror. I'll have a good look tomorrow to see if I can see any other damage.

I have 2 questions:
1. Can anyone give me any positive advice on this, letting me know of the advantages & disadvantages of settling this independantly of insurance companies?
2. Can anyone advise me of a website where I can check the prices of the damaged components?

Thanks - Martin

[jimc]

Insist on doing it via insurance.  It may well be cheaper even for the perp in the long run.  Your damage sounds expensive to be fixed commercially, and who knows what the other car may want fixed.  As the man in the middle with no fault you should be fine, BTDTGTTS and no extra expenses or increased premiums.

[Tino]

Martin,
You can check prices of parts here. It's in $ but will give you a general idea.
I don't see a problem with settleing without insureance as long a all partys agree and you have something signed from all people concerned. I have settled without involving insurance before as it worked out cheaper and easier without getting them involved (I did have only just accumulated 1 or 2 years NCB and did't want to loose it, and it was only minor damage of about £450).
At the end of the day it's your call, and that of the owner of the other vehicle involved.

[Grandma]

Just had my bike repaired with a lot less damage than yours after Galaxy side swiped me on M25 and that was £1000., mainly parts!
I would go for insurance as you have protected NCB and another vehicle was also damaged.
No harm in taking bike to your Yamaha dealer for an estimate to repair which can be used whichever way you go.
Hope it is fixed quickly, at least mine was still rideable

[rossidude46]

Martin, sorry to read this. you should inform your insurance company regardless, get the quote (not just estimate) for repair and pass that onto the other party to settle

From what i understand you should only lose you NCB if your
insurance company has to pay out, so since the other party is prepared to pay up you will not lose out. if he decides not to inform his insurance company, that's his choice. since your NCB is protected you have even less to worry about. I have heard of cases where a 'lets settle it with out the insurance companies' becomes something else once they see the bill

what's happening regarding the car your bike fell on ? is the owner of that claiming against against you or the owner of the 1st car.
Am sure someone who knows the law, Tallguy?, will give us the legal view on this

[TallGuy]

Martin, did you get the details of the vehicle your bike damaged? Even just the Vehicle Registration Mark is all that is required as your insurarers have access to the MIB to trace the owner/insurer. Pass all the details on the your insurer and make it clear what happened. As the 'offender' has been identified it should all be levied at their door, including the damage to the vehicle caused by your bike.

Don't ever go down the cash route unless it is really minor and they hand over the cash there and then. Quite often the guilty part don't appreciate or expect the total cost of the damage and then try and negotiate a lower sum, all this takes time and eventually you either reach a sum which is a loss to you or you fail to agree and by this time your insurers are not interested as you didn't repot it at the time.

When you popped into the station did the Station Desk Officer record the RTC? If they did then that will greatly help with evidencing your claim.

Oh and photographs.... you did take photographs I hope.

[guzz]

Don't settle for cash, always go through the insurance.
If its not your fault you won't lose any ncb, and they will have all the hassle and running around, not you.

[trouty]

"damaged the the tail piece, tank, left rear indicator, left side of all the fairing sections, right side middle section of the fairing, broken left mirror. "

trouty guestimate, using new parts, tank maybe £400, fairings £450, indicator £20, tailpiece £150?  Labour = 5 hours @ £50 p.h  Car drivers just have NO IDEA how much motorcycle parts cost

Possible Cat D write off.

Settle with cash worse case scenario... It ends up costing more than you thought due to not spotting something, 3rd vehicle's insurance makes YOU liable for damage to the 3rd vehicle, after all, the 1st car is no longer involved in this claim.  

Insurance worst case scenario, bike gets written off and you get the bike value paid out, no loss of NCB.

Go through the insurance Martin.  If they decide to CatD your bike, buy it back off them at a massively reduced price and i'll help you source parts/rebuild the bike.

[Stu]

Insurance is the only wat to go! You will lose out for sure, even insurance engineers will do their best to cut the hours for repair.
You will be able to claim back your expenses and get a loan bike while repairs are carried out.

Cash option will almost certainly leave you out of pocket with a bike that still has evidence of what happened to it '>

[naughty lee]

sorry to hear of this martin, tell matey that you will give him the opportunty to pay this outside of the insurance but insist on taking the insurance details anyway.
Take the bike tou your local dealer and have it repaired. Give the telephone number to the third party and give the 3rd partys number to the bike shop.
Once the machine is fixed then matey can liase with the bike shop and either pay, or not. as the case may be.. In which case his insurance will....mmm thats what I'd do

[scorps]

once you have accepted a cash offer the insurance companys will wash their hands of it and if you find out theres other damage you will be at a loss, also if he doesnt pay you will have to take him to civil court to get ya money (with no help from insurance company ) or if the other person claims against ya you could end up paying that bill


go through insurance he doesnt have to put it through his if he doesnt want to, but that wont affect you

[DangerMouse]

Really sorry to hear that.  Although i would personally go down the insurance route i dont think it should take to long to get your bike back on the road.

[Aceman]

Thank you all for your feedback.

I met with the driver (clumsy woman) today at her cafe in Wood Green.  She asked me to speak on the phone to her daughter who had the insurance details, which I did.  Her daughter refused to give me the insurance details and almost immediately started trying to argue the cost of the damaged parts.  In speaking to clumsy woman again, she also played the same role "Oh but it was only a little scratch..."  I simply said that the cost is worked out on replacement value of the parts, and that the petrol tank alone is about £400.  She was being unreasonable, so I simply left saying my insurance company will be contacting her.  

She probably thought that she could pay me a few hundred quid and save any NCB she may have.  It may be a case that she is not actually insured to drive the car.  I'll be calling my insurance company tomorrow.  I'm just about to renew my car insurance through the the same company (Choice Quote) so will also be able to validate how good their customer service is now that there is a claim.  So far, they've been good to me.  I'll detail their dealing with me in the Consumer Watchdog section, in great detail, as per usual.

At least this has happened now.  I was planning to spend a long weekend in France on the toy with a friend in late March or April.

I hope your weekends were better than mine.

[eezyrida]

Really sorry to hear of this, Martin. This is incredibly bad luck.

You might want to give Rider Support Services a ring on 020 8246 4900 tomorrow and see what they say. It might be that you can get the work done and pay yourself, then get reimbursed by her insurers, that way at least you minimise motorcycle "down time", as it were. It is possible you might get reimbursed for any interest incurred, if you had to borrow the money to get the work done. I am no expert on insurance but it might certainly be worth enquiring about this with the experts.

Also I would have thought the insurers of the person whose car your bike fell onto should deal direct with her insurers, and not involve you or your insurers at all. It's a bit like if a lorry reversed and knocked over a council street lamp which then fell onto a car. Both the council and car owner would be chasing the insurers of the lorry; I don't think the car owner would have any kind of claim against the council, unless it placed the street lamp in a negligent position where it was likely to get knocked over.

I hope this problem gets resolved as quickly as possible, and your bike is back in A1 condition for your weekend in France.

[Drei]

Sorry to hear that, I was in similar crap but I took lots of photos, the damage on the bike was only minor but once the dealer had a look it became a bit more then just £200... the bill came to £500 the bloke then was trying to negociate as his excess was £300.

If it's not your fault never settle for cash in hand unless it is very minor damage. As it has been said people have no idea how much it cost to repair a bike. That's why bikes get Cat C or D a lot more then cars, because the bike value is £4500 and full fairing plus labour would come to about £2000+ hence why it is easier to get a new bike.

[Darkmonster]

Quote (Aceman @ Feb. 24 2008,09:15)

Thank you all for your feedback. I met with the driver (clumsy woman) today at her cafe in Wood Green.  She asked me to speak on the phone to her daughter who had the insurance details, which I did.  Her daughter refused to give me the insurance details and almost immediately started trying to argue the cost of the damaged parts.  In speaking to clumsy woman again, she also played the same role "Oh but it was only a little scratch..."  I simply said that the cost is worked out on replacement value of the parts, and that the petrol tank alone is about £400.  She was being unreasonable, so I simply left saying my insurance company will be contacting her.   She probably thought that she could pay me a few hundred quid and save any NCB she may have.  It may be a case that she is not actually insured to drive the car.  I'll be calling my insurance company tomorrow.  I'm just about to renew my car insurance through the the same company (Choice Quote) so will also be able to validate how good their customer service is now that there is a claim.  So far, they've been good to me.  I'll detail their dealing with me in the Consumer Watchdog section, in great detail, as per usual. At least this has happened now.  I was planning to spend a long weekend in France on the toy with a friend in late March or April. I hope your weekends were better than mine.

Call Rider Support asap Martin....

And your insurance company.

Good luck man

[Alba]

...and if you need the woman sorting out, in case you've got moral issues, call ME '>

[Aceman]

Darkmonster - Hi there David.  I've just got off the phone from Rider Support Services.  I'm dealing with Alex and he is completely switched on.  Whilst speaking with him, my insurance brokers called me back to inform me of how much their solicitors would be paid for dealing with the claim, so I let Alex hear me speaking to them stating that I don't wish to use their solicitors as they are not specialists in dealing with motorcycle incidents, that they are based in Manchester and that I've never heard of them.  I said that I've dealt with RSS previously and know them to be extremely professional, that they are motorcycle specialists, and I trust them.  Insurance broker said that's fine, and Alex said that I handled them like a pro.

Alba - Oh you're such a sweetie thank you.  Hang on a minute, when we met, you were extremely hospitable and kind, oh and a terrific looker that's really fit "phwoar" too, so I guess that makes you a psycho axe-weilding biker biatch - yikes!  So my response to you is, err yeah, whatever you want to do is fine with me.  I know my limits! '>

[Spill]

Quote (Drei @ Feb. 25 2008,08:22)

Sorry to hear that, I was in similar crap but I took lots of photos,

I did that on one of my minor crunches (only the bike written off this time - no hospital visits).
The photos proved the driver was lying and, just before we went into court, he changed his mind and agreed to settle.

[Drei]

Quote (Spill @ Feb. 25 2008,23:21)

Quote (Drei @ Feb. 25 2008,08:22) Sorry to hear that, I was in similar crap but I took lots of photos, I did that on one of my minor crunches (only the bike written off this time - no hospital visits). The photos proved the driver was lying and, just before we went into court, he changed his mind and agreed to settle.

Yep... these days all phone have cameras. Make sure you use it, take as many photos as you can from all angles, inlcuding the road and area, try and get a photo of the driver/rider in case they claim they weren't there.

Let us know what the update is. Someone backed up into my dorr in a car park at the hosital. She accepted liability straight away but her insurance DID NOT... yep... her insurance didn't accept it. I made sure to take lots of photos from all anges and contact the CCTV Operator from the hospital. He was on my side as the video showed clearly it was her fault.

I will repeat again that just because the driver accepts liability... if she does, her insurance might not. Remember people often accept liability at the scene but once they go home and the husband, friend, whoever tells them their were stupid they change their story. In these cases it could take over 2 years before you see anything unless you have witnesses or photos.

Remember my crash back in 2006 November??? I am still waiting on it... at the moment I got nothing except that the bloke accepted liability out of the blue. I went with the lawyer my company advized and they were shit, they did nothing beside book an estimator send a few letters and make some calls then they decided to close the claims because they though I wouldn't get anything. Right before they done that I already got in touch with White Dalton and agreed for them to take over.
White Dalton advised me that the previous lawyers are claiming a cost of £4700... for what no idea... they did jack shit, they gave up on my case even though in the end it paid off... so why they want over £4k I don't know.

[Aceman]

Update for you all - I got a call from Mrs Clumsy's insurance, Norwich Union, who have admitted full liability.  They've wanted to pick my bike up asap and get it repaired, and we agreed to have that done at Woodford Motorcycles which is where I bought it from.  

They also agreed to provide me with a like-for-like bike to me whilst the repairs are being unertaken.  Unfortuantely, the company they are using have no litre sports bikes at all.  I was offered GSXR750, GSXR600, SV1000, SV650, CBF1000, DL1000 aka VStrom, Bandit 600/1200.  Having had an SV1000 for a while previously I immediately refused the SVs and the DL as he said it was basically the same engine.  I didn't like the GSXR750 when I test rode it a few years ago, so I've opted for the CBF1000.  I don't think that anyone could honestly class any of those bikes as a "like-for-like" sports bike compared to my R1.  The guy who I was speaking with, Scott, was good.

Unless any of you are going to warn me away from the CBF, I'll stick with it.  Else I'd go for the GSXR750.  I should get that on Monday morning.

Thank you, all of you for your responses, wisdom and experience.  

Martin

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[Aceman]

Quote (rossidude46 @ Feb. 24 2008,09:42)

what's happening regarding the car your bike fell on ? is the owner of that claiming against against you or the owner of the 1st car.

Hi Agi,

When Mrs Clumsy's insurance company contacted me, they admitted full liability and seemed keen to own the situation through completely.  However, they were unaware that my bike had fallen onto another car and the gentleman I was speaking with seemed a little perturbed that his client had not advised him about this.  I gave them full details of this, and he called his client and then rang me back to say that they are also accepting full liability for damage to that other car too.

[trouty]

so all in all, a decent result, and pretty quick acting.  Well done NU for owning the situation.  With regards the loan bike, its a short term loaner, doesnt really matter what the bike is as long as it does the job '>

[BikerBeth]

Well seems like you are getting a result.  Maybe someone at  Norwich Union claims department reads this site, realised you are a  martial arts instructors and thought it best to deal with your claim quickly:D

[Tino]

Good stuff,
sounds like you made the right choice.