Topic: Ian

[The old man]

Alex. I don't know where you were when the London Tube & Bus bombings took place, BUT i know where my son was, so please don't include me in your group of 'what if it was our kid' rantings.

Put yourself in the 'Front Line officers' position.

The information you have (Albiet duff) is that you are dealing with a bomber. this guy could trigger the device with his hands in his pocket and blow you the feck up. What would you do?

I am not trivialisng this nor am i condoning it, Someone should be held responsible for this sad death, however i don't believe it should be Blair or the people that pulled the trigger.

[MATTP]

Quote (Burger @ Nov. 04 2007,19:23)

This could have been avoided and it was not.

Rich, if it could have been then it would have been! To say otherwise is nothing short of very silly talk!

Why do so many people think this is a 007 James Bond world we live in? Do people really think that MI6, MI5, The Met and local police know everything? It's so easy to judge after the fact and to make statements as an outsider. The police will never win the minds of people as being proactive is wrong and being reactive is also wrong. The people paid to look after us do a great job and I for one have 100% trust in them!

Not wanting to rub people up the wrong way here but you would have to be thick as fuck to think that the officers carrying their job here were at fault here. You do the best you can with the choices you have. The wrong person was killed here and that is very sad. But IMO, the right action was taken and I'd agree for it to be taken again.

We all want to live in a free country where we can walk around and feel safe. If you feel that you are no longer safe because of the actions on that day then you best look at the facts covering the amount of times the police have taken a persons life in the UK. The police in the UK are winkers at times but in no way are they the killers that some mindless twits are trying to make us believe.

[Burger]

WTF, has the world gone made??? The met will never win hearts and minds, The police always get slagged off for doing a bad job never a good one?

Whats wrong with these sentances?

Ill tell why they get slagged off for doing a crap job. They are a public service, they are paid by the public to protect and to serve the public. They are accountabel to the public not to kill the public. When they do something right thats cos they should, thats cos their paid to do it right not wrong. right.


Im going to go and buy a gun, Im gonnas walk onto a train, I see a brazilian, he looks a little shifty, So I pop 5 bullets into his skul. When the police come to arrest me I say,

"sorry, thought he was a terrorist, sorry for murdering him but he looked a bit sus ya know '> dont lock us up for murder will ya? just slap us with a fine cos I was in a difficult position, did not know if he had a bomb, hell, I dont even know who he is?

The officers who fired those bullets knew just as much as that. Nothing nada, sqaut, nothing before they carried out a leathal execution.

Im not saying any more on this, your out your friggin minds, The police are a public service, YA KNOW PAID BY YOU,

[MATTP]

lol, and the police are people who WILL make mistakes while carrying out their job. If you think that this will never happen again then you are living in a dream world or on an Island without any other people. We aim to be correct 100% of the time but FFS this is a target that will never be met, let alone be met by the Met (had to write that as it was funny '> )

Just love the way you worked out how the police opp went that day '> Must have been reading the Daily Mail while writing such a clear and blanced view of the event.

[Burger]

Yea, do you know what, Im backing down from this. Your right matt, No one is to blame.

We expect our government to vet the people coming into our country to protect us from potential suicide bombers. They fail which then means that our police force has to manage them. They fail to do that with all the public pressure and legislation. So were left with Trigger happy crack head coppers running road gunning innocent people down because we are in fear of being bombed.

All makes sense. Does anyone else feel failed at every stage by our countries civil servants?

Thats it for me MAtt, I am a Daily mail reading english man, I would not expect you to understand that as you are an ethnic minority civil servant who has no intention of staying in my country. Thats precisely why I hate this stinking roach infested rock and Ill be off to France at the first available opportunity. Tata yall

[MATTP]

lol. Anyone see those toys going for a fly '> . You do make me laugh mate as you always let the toys take over when things get intertesting. I'd like to clear up a little lie that Burger has posted. I'm not wanting to leave England at all, it's my English born wife that wants out. I love it here as there is so much life and if we could buy a nice home we would stay  '> .

As the token ethnic minority civil servant ( ) on the site I'd like to point out that we try to do our best with what we are supplied. There are many good people in the civil service and IMO there were many good people acting in the best interest of the public on the day that lad was killed. It's wrong to think that the civil service is wrong in how it acts as it is wrong to blame the cops for how they acted. You do the best you can do with the choices you have. Don't hate the worker when it's the people in WC3 who are pushing all the buttons or telling you to pull the trigger!

[Triggerhappybaby]

I suppose 99% of the population in this country are lucky the decisions that they make at work are not life or death, and the mistakes that they make are not life or death. In many respects I'm closer to this than most - I understnd what happened, I understand why it happened and I understand the constraints by which the police operate. I understand that the police, like any public sector organisation work to the mandate given to it by the public, the government and its budget.

Alex, it's not just an unfortunate and regrettable incident, it's a tragedy and the Met has held its hands up to that. I know how much has been done since then to review the incidents and the lessons learnt because I've been involved in those meetings. And Rich, regardless of how much training the police get, or how many exercises are run trying to go though how to deal with an incident such as this, nothing can prepare you for a live dynamic situation as the one faced by those officers on that day. Yes, information was scarce - terrorists are not known for widely publicising their intentions or their whereabouts as a rule - but almost everything that everyone ever does is a judgement call. You weigh everything up on the basis of the information you have, the resources available at the time and your professional judgement. Nobody involved in that operation wanted this outcome, and they have to live with it and it certainly is a horrific tragedy for the family involved, and whether he was in this country legitimately or not is not really a factor. If anything it was the manslaughter of an innocent individual and yes, it's right that th police should be called to account for their actions. However, the legislation it was taken under is the big problem. What it means is that the police cannot pursue anyone wth criminal and violent intentions into a public place in case they then put the public at risk of harm. If you have a gun-toting maniac, you cannot pursue them, you have to stand off,if you are pursuing a motor vehicle in a public place you have to stand off in case they run someone over. It's the same legislation, and the police would be guilty of a criminal offence if they allowed a known or suspected violent crim into a public place where members of the public MAY be placed in danger.

That is what this case hinged on - allowing someone suspected of being a suicide bomber into a public place. If you want a police force that is constrained like that, well, you got it like that. Just don't come crying to me when someone steals your bike from under you and the police won't give chase.

Sermon over. I'm very close to this, it was a H&S case and I'm the H&S manager. So perhaps the person you need to blame is me. Tell you what though, I don't look forward to the day when the police are attemptin to apprehend a real suicide bomber and they stand off because they are worried about the criminal proceedings that will follow if they are wrong. I hope not to be on that tube train.

[ifizzy]

I would have thought that if there was a suspected terrorist about to go on a walkabout an armed unit could have been there to meet and greet him.
Im not of the opinion that the police are infallible.
There is a so called war on terror raging all over the world so why are the police fighting it on the UKs streets surely wars need soldiers.
People who are highly trained in the skills of killing.
I was in london on the day of the bombings and the attempted bombings.
I cannot begin to feel what it must have been like to actually witness the events first hand.
I admire the heroics of all our services but I cannot lay the fear of the unkown as the basis for what has been an uneccessary loss of life.
Yes we were all extra vigilant yes we were all expectant of another attempt to destroy our capital city but we were not all
in a position to shoot someone without the entire facts or confirmation of identity.
This is not an H&S issue for crying out loud this is an inherent lack of expertise and inadequate preparation for what was to
all extents and purposes a highly dangerous operation/manhunt.
Why were there no firearms officers present on the ops.
Didnt Manchester tell us anything.
Knee jerk responses by an ill equipped underinformed group of highly charged undertrained officers who are ultimately overseen by Mr Blair was surely not the best response to an imminent threat from an unidentified man or was it?

[Burger]

Well Annie, You said wait for the independant report and now its here. Its verdict, avoidable human error's.

BBC NEWS

[Spill]

Quote (Burger @ Nov. 03 2007,14:31)

before fire was opened

Sorry, but that just sounds wrong.