Topic: Ian

[MATTP]

I do find it strange that there is a call for Ian to be replaced when he was not the one at fault here. Is it the head of your company who is at fault when your team makes a mistake? The real call should be for a review and a stronger interest shown towards training of the people who had direct control over the situation that day.

Link

While not wanting to go into the end result of someone being killed and taking away from how important that is. I find it hard to work out why people have it in for who sits in the top seat when it's a section of a branch of the Met who this needs to be focused on. If a job was to go then it would need to be from there.

Nevertheless, Ian has been around for a couple of years now in this post and while he is getting the death nail of backing from MP's I still think he should be left to focus on helping London be a better place to live.

rant over and now I'll go back to having a winge about cops  '>

[Biker Biker]

Ian who?  Am lost

[MOD]

MET Police, give a whole new meaning to "Getting a Brazilian"  

[Alba]

as a chronic conspiracy theorist, i believe the public wants blood, and he's the chosen one to be sacrificed.  guilty or not, it doesnt make any difference.  but thats only in the eye of the beholder...

[MATTP]

BB, maybe best you get back out the back yard and work on the motorbike again

I don't think it's the country as a whole who are wanting Ian to go. IMO, it's the small number of people who live without reason who are pushing for him to go.

I do laugh when seeing the family of the dead lad giving it large on the telly about the mistaken action. Funny how the following weekend after the police action here in London there were over 50 people killed by the cops in his home country. Not saying that we should understate this action, but at the same time it's funny how people come here and give it large about the wrongs that happen here when back home they have it 10times worse. It's a bit like me making comments about drunken bar fights here being so bad. A little rich when my home town is leading NZ as the drunken problem of the nation.

[MOD]

Apparently...when Sir Ian was told 50 Brazillion people were killed by police in the same week, he asked "how much is a Brazillion"  '>

[MATTP]

Quote (MFaster @ Nov. 02 2007,15:20)

Apparently...when Sir Ian was told 50 Brazillion people were killed by police in the same week, he asked "how much is a Brazillion"  '>

If you start putting up jokes from 'mook the week' we could be in trouble  '>

[Biker Biker]

I knew an Ian once... but really his name was Daniel, it all got a bit confusing

[MOD]

I've got an uncle called Ian and he lives in New York

[Biker Biker]

No the Ian/Daniel I know dosn't live in New York... it can't be him.

[Aceman]

I've been to New York!

[TallGuy]

I've been to York and there was nothing new about it.

[Triggerhappybaby]

Nobody should walk for this, not even me. I never have anything but total admiration for the people who put their lives on the line or the sake of the public. Don't get me stated on the legislation involved but if the police are being asked to take suicide bombers out before they get to a public place, then they risk being blown up themselves and then instead of it being a Section 3 prosecution (failing to protect people not in your employment from injury arising from your undertaking) it becomes a Section 2 prosecution (failing to protect your own staff from injury at work). But its ok if police officers die because the public expect them to lay down their lives if that becomes necessary  '>

This whole prosecution has been a complete travesty. The Met admitted their responsibility for the death of JC de M no question at all. This was about corporate failings of allowing a potential suicide bomber into a public place. But my god, if the guy had been a bomber the tune would have been changed. I feel sorry for everyone involved who did the best possible under a very difficult and trying set of circumstances. Still, its a good job hindsight is 20/20.....

[Aceman]

If an individual does not do their job correctly, then there may be a regrettable consequencial action.  If that is indirect, then all other subsequent steps in a system are corrupted.  It's unfortunate that a man lost his life.

Maybe it should be a legal requirement for everyone who enters a country to be fully conversant with such terms as "Stop - police!" or "Armed police - stop or I'll shoot" or similar.  From what I remember, the victim in this circumstance had overstayed his visa and shouldn't have even been here at that time.  Now I'm not saying that because of that he deserved what happened, but if he knew the aforementioned phrases, and complied, He'd be alive today.

However, if someone pulled a gun out on me and I didn't know it was the fuzz or British security services, I'd have run too.  Either that or my training would kick in and I would kick off - and that would certainly result in hospital, at least, for someone.

[Burger]

This is the sad result of a catalouge of human errors. There should be no excuse for the loss of inocent lives by people we trust and PAY to keep us safe. If you look at the evidence presented to the courts in this case failiure after failiure occured resulting in officers being miss infomred, un prepared and then having to act under pressure they made an ill thought out decision which cost an innocent man his. Whats more dissapointing is when the Met realised they fooked up they went on a mission to try and make the victims name mud. Accusing him of being a terrorist, saying he ran, saying he jumped over the ticket barrier, saying p[ublicly that he had links to terroroists grousps etc when in truth he was a hard working legal immigrant with a clean record and charitable background.

With all this to bear in mind I think Sir Ian has made the right decision. He has done a good job and continues to do a good job in a very trying and hostile time.

[Triggerhappybaby]

Whilst I have no opinion on the post-shooting allegations.... wait for the report on that one..... you cannot hold people to account if they acted in good faith with as many facts at their disposal as were available and they made split second decisions whichthey had to weigh up against genuinely thinking this guy was about to blow up a train. Not one of those people set out for this to happen, and I defy any critic of what happened to put themselves in any of their shoes and make a better fist of it. This is not down to incompetence, or negligence, or anything other than a group of people putting into practice a procedure none of them had ever had to implement before and doing the best they could.

Everyone's a cynic about the police when things go wrong, but I don't see many of you sticking your hands up to get out there and do their job for the day (with apologies to Tino and Tallguy, PFM and anyone else I erroneously missed off)

[peckhamrose]

I think the police are like a lot of big organisations these days. They are run from the top which in itself is fine but they don't listen enough what's going on on the shop floor, as it were. No-one listens to the actual experience and problems being experienced by the people in the firing line. I'm thibking the Post office also for example, where I understand Andy Crozier found some person to be interviewed saying how he can get his 8 hor shift work done in 2 hours so then go back and get more work for overtime, when the reality for a lot of postmen and women is that they get 10 hours work to do in 8 hours and no-one listens to them.  This the same fore the police of course and in the health service especially, and you can all think of your own examples.  It's target-driven society that's screwing it all up.  I gave myself till 10.30 to reply to this, and have failed. So someone at the top has to pay for that!

[The old man]

'You are only as good as your last job'. People forget (Especially the media) how much good our front line forces have done and are continuing to do under the pressure of unreasonable targets, Legislation, human rights, and everything else that the so called do-gooders of this country want to implement.

I'm with Matt & Trig on this one.

[Burger]

Annie,

You more than any one would be able to look at the facts at come to the same conclusion as the judge did.

The surveillance officer was taking a piss and missed JCD coming out of the house.

He then radio'd a mobile operative to follow and identifiy the man.

The undercover unarmed officer was not able to make a valid identification of the suspect even though he toke 2 buses on a 20 minute journey and changed in Brixton.

The undercover officer had called for armed response units at the start of pursuit and they did not arrive until the suspect had traveled across town, changed buses, walked across the road, into the station, bought a ticket, walked through the barrier and trotted down the stairs. Both me and you know where thoses officers are based and it aint far.

The undercover officer beat JCD to the station entrance and called NSY and asked permission to stop the man, he was declined.

Failure one, Survailance fell
Failure two, response was slow, halted and did not meet requirements for emergency response.
Failure three, Main ops had no clue what was going on
Failure four, No ID could be made before fire was opened

Im not attacking anyone in particular but you cant say failures did not occur when they obviously did, Human ones which could have been avoided and had the police being doing their job correctly and innocent man would still be alive.

So, we now have one man dead and no one has be prosecuted for his murder. It now means that us tax payers have to pay the fine the MET has incurred for shooting an innocent man. This is cooperate manslaughter in my eyes, but they you are. I only listen to the media, maybe you heard diff??? Enlighten me to why you think all officers and surveillance did what they thought was best, that they thought to kill a man after observing him for an Hour was the best solution.

May I remind you that we as a paying public pay these officers to keep us safe. We pay them to make these decisions and if all the officers involved in this operation who let the chain down are going to be employed after this Im utterly gob smacked and well with in my rights as a tax payer to give my opinion.

[The old man]

If the Public end up paying the fine so be it. It will probably be a damn site less than THIS tax payer pays for a 'Supertram' that i dont fecking use.

[Triggerhappybaby]

Yeah, you're absolutely right Rich. Well, you know what they say about opinions.....

[Flying Scot]

Quote (Burger @ Nov. 02 2007,17:09)

when in truth he was a hard working legal immigrant with a clean record and charitable background.

Not to say what happened was as I put it very unfortunate but look at the times and pressure's the officer's where under but burger don't you mean illegal imigrant as he should'nt have been here. I agree with matt and trig

[ifizzy]

Shooting someone in the head by mistake is manslaughter.
Shooting the same person in the head 5 times is homocide.
Shooting someone whilst being restrained by someone is MURDER.
All officers involved were guilty.
Tagging this person with the he looks shifty and seemingly made an anti surveilance tactic is bullshit.
How many times did these officers have the opportunity to apprehend this man.
They choose to publically execute him.
Everyone involved in this tragedy should be in prison right now.
Mr De Menezes should still be alive.
Mr Ian Blair should acknowledge his responsibilities and step down.
His officers let him down.
His officers put the public at risk.
His officers executed a man who was in public view whilst he was successfully being restrained.
This was a mans life taken by completely incompetent people in very responsible positions.
How can no-one be accountable its an absolute disgrace.
There was no evidence to suggest that he was actually concealing any weapons or explosives through any part of the surveillance so they thought that killing him in cold blood on a commuter train was the safest option.
Fuckin bollox.

[Burger]

BANG on alex, Some one on here who is actually talking sense. At the least this is a clear case of corperate manslaughter. Human error after human error resulted in an inocent man being killed. This could have been avoided and it was not.

Im sure Ron, Trigger, TOM and any other Met police advocates would soon chage their tune if it was Diane Dennis, Mrs Flying Scot, Stu on their way to work, who happened to look like someone else and who was shot dead without being detained or even identified.

I agree with Trigger on one hand, that these officers are put in the most difficult position, they have to make split decisions with very little time to think. But on the other hand, These officers are supposed to be trained, they are trained and experienced to deal with these situations and they failed to deal with this one correctly. They knew when they signed for this unit that they would have to make these decisions, they knew that they may be under public scrutiny and someone has to be responsible for their failures. Standard tactical procedures dictate that you have to identify your target. These officers failed to do this within a reasonable amount of time, its just wonrg.

[ifizzy]

I cant believe people are describing what happened on that day as a regrettable or unfortunate incident.
Cutting your finger, or stubbing your little toe is regrettable, pumping 5 bullets into a terrified mans head is utterly unforgiveable.
Regrettable and unfortunate completely devalue this mans life.
Would it be a catalogue of errors if it were our kid who was gunned down in cold blood? I think not!!!
I would want exacted justice for my kid....... an eye for an eye and all that.
This mans family have also been torn apart for having the audacity to call into question these murderers actions.
We get all arsey when people expect our police force to have higher standards than their mother countrys police force.
Trivialising this womans loss is sorrier than the (incident) itself.
But then again thats how a civilised society operates these days isnt it?