Topic: All this speculation about the next uk election

[john]

Much speculation about the timing of the next general election in the news at the moment.

In the meantime why don't we hold our own ? A vote here will count for about as much as the real thing anyway...

If there was a vote there for freedom I'd of voted it 100 times over '>  as there's not, a no vote for me  '>

[john]

I've often thought along the same lines but, and I know this is a tired old cliche, historically I can't shake the thought that an awful lot of people have fought and died defending our right to vote and if you look at it pragmatically they are still doing it today.

However useless that right might actually be in practice (and it surely is) I always feel somewhat obliged to exercise this particular bit of freedom that I have, out of respect for the many people who have made such great sacrifices to allow us to have it.

Of course the right to not vote is also a freedom we have too '>

...as the saying goes, if you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a soldier ! '>

[eezyrida]

Quote (john @ Oct. 01 2007,11:13)

If you can read this in English, thank a soldier ! '>

Hehe, well put (even if you did bash Roadcraft on a different thread).  

[john]

Quote (eezyrida @ Oct. 01 2007,14:06)

Quote (john @ Oct. 01 2007,11:13) If you can read this in English, thank a soldier ! '> Hehe, well put (even if you did bash Roadcraft on a different thread).

I'm not knocking advanced riding books but Roadcraft is an astonishingly dry read and makes the whole concept seem incredibly boring which it isn't in reality, anyway its just imho '>

Though I must also say that everytime I read an article in a bike mag about safer/advanced riding techniques the ultimate objective seems to be to enable you to go faster which seems to be the other extreme and trying to make advanced riding appear to be more exciting.

I'm quite happy to just get keep on trying to be safer but at the same sort of speed...

[ifizzy]

I will be voting for the.......

Plain English, sack all lawyers, anti politically correct, tear up the human rights act, pagan, support the working minority, obliterate the welfare system, stop councils knowing who I phone, non corporate sponsored, quangoless party.




Oh you havent included that one! '>





Other it is then '>

[Trisckie]

Women campaigned hard and died so that todays women can vote in this country so i will always cast my vote in elections, but my choice of party/idiot is a secret between me and the ballot box

[john]

Although there were plenty of peaceful, unmarried, middle class women who campaigned long and hard for equal rights for women unfortunately the Suffragettes actually became more of a terrorist organisation, attacking individuals, damaging infrastructure, rioting, arson and even bombing. Although one couldn't seriously compare them to the IRA their actions and methods are comparable to the actions taken by animal liberation extremists of recent years.

A great number of innocent people were injured, some very seriously and I'm sure that I have read somewhere that a policeman was even killed as a result of injuries received during a riot and not to forget the fate of that poor jockey and racehorse that Emily Davison fell under whilst trying to pin a flag on it...

I also believe it is generally agreed that because of the violence and civil disobedience that the Suffragette movement actually harmed progress towards equality for women, what actually won women the vote was during the first world war when the shortage of men allowed women to show that they could actually perform every role a man could and better in most cases, including getting killed just as well as men could !

It is those women, the munitions workers, nurses and more, that we truly owe a debt to for womens equality.

[Trisckie]

I stand corrected John, (time for me to do some research me thinks)

 

[john]

I don't think you are necessarily wrong, there are plenty of people who would argue the opposite and I wouldn't deny them the right to take the facts and see them in a different light if they wanted too, theres a very thin line between terrorism and legitimate violent struggle against oppression, thats the thing about history, its all subjective really '>

[eezyrida]

Quote (john @ Oct. 03 2007,09:25)

not to forget the fate of that poor jockey and racehorse that Emily Davison fell under

What a fascinating exchange. History is my thing and it is wonderful to see this on this forum.

Out of curiosity I googled this and found the jockey, Herbert Jones, suffered a mild concussion, fractured rib and a slightly bruised face. The horse he was riding, Anmer, suffered bruised shins. Both returned to riding.

[peckhamrose]

They say history is always written by the victors.
The losers are dead or beaten so can't speak.
The suffragettes as John wrote above were often their own worst enemies, and my great Aunt was one of the more peaceful campaigners.  The Cat & Mouse Act did not help anyone. When the women were imprisoned they went on hunger strike, so were violently force fed with bromide (a chemical used in photography, I believe, at the time), then released. The effects of the chemicals made them crazy and their actions after they were released then, were not always reasonable.  
I get so upset at women who say they won't vote. They have no idea how lucky they are. None of us do, really. That's why that series Who Do You Think You Are is such an education.
Does anyone have opinions on the idea that voting should be mandatory? Can't make up my mind on that one.

[john]

I think voting should be mandatory as long as there is an option to spoil the ballot paper. It is ridiculous that less than half the country actually vote each time.

[Mr Rizla]

not registered so cant vote , i live in nomans land

[john]

funnily enough there is actually somewhere called Nomans (sic) Land, it's here.. They say it's uninhabited but now we know different, its Kens secret base, It's no wonder you put such a high mileage on your bike communting everyday '>

[eezyrida]

Quote (peckhamrose @ Oct. 03 2007,14:27)

When the women were imprisoned they went on hunger strike, so were violently force fed with bromide

Thanks for this, very interesting.

I remember learning at school that soldiers in the trenches in WWI were given bromide in their tea to curb their sexual appetites, as a way of combatting VD!

[john]

dont get me started about WW1, it makes the treatment of the Suffragettes seem like a holiday at Butlins in comparison, if ever a debt of gratitude was owed by so many to, er, so many, then the soldiers on all sides butchered in the first world war deserve it more than just about any others and at the end of the day all those lives lost and families torn apart achieved really nothing useful at all, except for womens suffrage obviously !

isn't war just shit really ? There are no winners '>

[eezyrida]

Quote (john @ Oct. 03 2007,19:57)

dont get me started about WW1

I agree with what you say, John. WWI was the result of European tensions caused by newly created post-1871 Germany wanting to assert its strength, and Russia and France feeling threatened by that. Ferdinands assassination pissed off Germany's friends Austro-Hungary, who threatened to invade Serbia, which was allied to Russia. This triggered off the very funny "Willy-Nicky" telegrams (between Kaiser and Czar) and the apparent French troop build-up on the border was the last straw. The rest, as they say, is...

[john]

I really wish our media/society/people would get behind our troops and give them the moral support they need. You may not agree with the war but its not as if the soldiers themselves have much choice and right or wrong they are prepared to die for this country doing what they are told to do whether they like it or not. I couldn't do that.

It makes me sick the way our so-called civilised society behaves towards them '>

[The old man]

I beg to differ a 'little' with this.
The modern day Soldier who signs up to join the Armed forces is IMO prepared to fight and in some respects prepared to die for their government, as it is these morons that decide where our boys go.

The womens movements were also set up by choice to fight for their rights.

The majority of WW1 & WW2 soldiers did not have the choice they were conscripts. My grandad did not sign up to fight for the future population, he was press-ganged.

So enough of this 'We fought for your freedom' the majority had no choice.

[scorps]

i cant believe people actually want to vote these lying tossers back into goverment time for a change eh anyone but this lot

[eezyrida]

Quote (The old man @ Oct. 05 2007,08:45)

So enough of this 'We fought for your freedom' the majority had no choice.

Ah but there was a choice, as any Quaker can tell you. In WW1, 16,000 conscripts chose not to fight as they were conscientious objectors, and in WW2 this figure was nearly 60,000.

I feel a tremendous debt of gratitude to our servicemen and women. A few years ago I was privileged to meet Bob Doe. He had some very interesting stories to tell about being one of the "few".

[The old man]

Its each to their own i suppose. I would feel very privileged to meet the inventor of the Cats Eyes, or the person who perfected the Pneumatic Tyre whom IMO have probably saved more lives and done it without taking any lives.

However this thread (as most) has been hijacked. I thought it was about 'Who' you would vote for and not a lesson in History.
It reminds me of going to the supermarket for a packet of Fags and a tax disc holder, only for somebody at the door on the way out trying to tell me that smoking and driving is bad for me and what i really need is a double glazed conservatory.

[eezyrida]

It's all John's fault he started it

Seriously though I have enjoyed reading and joining in the historical debate posts so I will be all for someone starting up a new thread specifically for that.

As for who I am voting for, that is strictly between me and the ballot box... '>

[guzz]

Quote (eezyrida @ Oct. 05 2007,12:57)

A few years ago I was privileged to meet Bob Doe. He had some very interesting stories to tell about being one of the "few".

I read his book on the flight to oz, fascinating.
Personally I think ALL the political parties try to tell you what they think you want to hear, and then shaft you just as soon as they are elected.
They are all a bunch of lying b*****s who will do anything to keep their jobs!
Anyone who actually WANTS to be a politician is not to be trusted!