Topic: How things change..........

[pieman]

Okay, there's a lot of things that have come up recently about the way things have changed on this site, and I'm at home today and it's bugging me. You might not agree with some of the things I say, but I think this should be an interesting discussion.

When I first found this site, my main bike site was still the Fazer owners club. I found myself becoming closer and closer to the LB site, because they were more friendly and they used to do far more riding than talking - plus they still had the magic mix of the odd social event for the Winter.

Whilst it is still a friendly site, and the Wednesday and Friday nights at Box and Ace still happen as far as I know (admittedly I don't do either of these any more as work gets in the way more often than not - Chelsea Bridge used to be okay on the way home from work, but not the Ace), the atmosphere is different somehow. For instance, when was the last time someone apart from me or Burger stood up and organised something? (okay, Mikey put up about the killspills, Tino's been going on trackdays, but these are things they were going to do anyway and if other people wanted to go then they could, what else?)

Anyone can sort a ride or a night out can't they? Burger and I don't really mind, and I guess we are kind of attention seekers or something, but there's been a bit of a lack of interest even in the things we try to organise! It's got to a point where both of us were thinking about not bothering with the xmas do. Where is everybody? Whats happening around here? I don't want you to think I'm having a moan, I understand people all have stuff happening, and their own lives (Bec and I are gonna be scarce whilst we sort out our new house), the big reason for posting this is - - -

What can we do to make things more interesting???

What do you lot want to do together??

Organising on which days are more likely to get the best response??

Personally I'd be really interested in paintballing, and I'd like to do an off-road day. Both of these would require firm commitments and a lot of organising so at the mo I'm kind of not gonna bother. It's also difficult as I do work some weekends, but I do have more sundays off than anything, and I can book weekdays off if I get enough notice.

And you, what do you want???

[john]

coincidentally I was just thinking almost exactly the opposite, there seems to be plenty of people organising all sorts of stuff from ride-outs to weekends away and there is barely a weekend when there is absolutely nothing going on.

Unfortunately I seem to never have enough time and/or money to get involved as much as I would like but I continue to be impressed with just how friendly, lively and involving TLB is and also the fact that the 'core' of the group always seem to maintain enough enthusiasm to keep it all going '>

As the winter severly limits regular bike related activities a suggestion from me would be to follow the lead of most other 'conventional' bike clubs and have a regular monthly meet in a central london pub...

[Evel KEVevel]

An interesting subject it is indeed……I’m kinda half in agreement with you and half not. There’s plenty getting organised by several different folk….but you’re right about the more talking than riding.

I found this site as I was looking for like minded people to ride with……and there are some of those people to found here which is great. Each person has their own reasons for joining the forum I guess. Different styles of bike, different riding abilities etc mean not everybody can take part in everything but I agree that we do get a poor turn out for things when enough notice has been given to get involved……especially the ride-outs. In a previous post I had said that I’ve only ever done a run with 5 bikes from the forum….and Ron was telling me how there used to be a regular group of about 20-30.  So things have definitely changed but I can’t say that since I’ve joined I’ve noticed, so it must have been going on before then?

More riding than talking may have reversed a bit but there are no rules and those that prefer socialising to riding are free to do so. Having the odd social in Winter is cool….having a social once a week is cool too….attend at your leisure. The weekly socials do seem to be better attended than the weekend runs but then folk have their own lives to lead. I am busy during the week and on Sat so Sunday is my main biking day…..and even that gets taken away from me sometimes. I go to the Ace now and again because it’s my best chance of catching up with as many folk from here in one place at one time….and you’re a lovely bunch!

Anyone can sort a ride/event. That’s true. Eddie did his 500 mile run, Ron did a “for those not on the 500 mile run”, there was the summer beach party, Jan & J.T have their mad hoose parties, Grandma has a trip to the finest country on earth going on this weekend, The newbie run etc etc……there’s plenty on it seems……but how many folk are getting involved in each of these? I can’t honestly say because I attended 1 of these. I’m guessing the more social ones got a better turn out than the rides…..so why are folk not getting out on the runs?  

”What can we do to make things more interesting???”

Step one….Find out WHY people don’t go on the organised rides. Riding in a group is one of the best things about biking (for me).

”What do you lot want to do together??”

Biking - More runs in larger numbers to a variety of places on sunny days.

Socially - The comedy club night was a peach. Socialising with the TLBs is a top laugh. Paintballing would be a hoot (last time I did it I didn’t get hit once! Skill! ) but may not suit all….whereas drinking and eating works for all. Bike Show at NEC? The common interest in here is bikes so that’s maybe an obvious one.

”Organising on which days are more likely to get the best response??”

For me it always gonna be a Sunday unless I get plenty notice and have time to take off work. Maybe Everyone should fire up their most common “pleasure” biking day (got there before you commuters! ) and it will give folk a better idea of who to invite or PM etc

It’s all personal preference and availability I guess.

We’re not here for a long time…we’re here for a good time....

so get on the Brands Hatch BSB run!!!

[Triggerhappybaby]

where do I sign... '>

[john]

I have often thought that a regular date(s) each month for a  TLB ride-out might work, certainly for me as it would make it easier to plan ahead to keep the day free.

[DangerMouse]

I was going to write an essay on this subject as i agree with Evel that im not 100% with you.  I have organised rideouts before and so has Edd.

Like John says im impressed with the people on here and the like mindedness of everyone.  I dont really enjoy the social thing too much unless were going on a proper night out but thats not why im here.

Im here because i love riding and on this site i can find people local to me who want to join me.

I dont really see what the problem is to be honest!

I also think that putting pressure on people to meet up all the time can put newbies off.

All I really want to say that this has been one of the best Years of Biking for me and it is mostly because ive met people on here and made new friends with similar interests.  I think if your organising a rideout its because you want too not because you feel you have too.  That wont be enjoyable.

Ill prob go out this Saturday not sure where prob round Essex so if anyone wants to come along please do.


Chris

[piercedprincess]

We are restricted in the fact that we have Westie's little boy every other weekend so that only leaves us two weekends a month to socialise or go for rideouts - plus money is not always readily available!
In my opinion, there are a lot of things organised and its up to everyone whether they attend or not.  I like the idea of a weekly meet in a pub somewhere tho! '>

[Triggerhappybaby]

As someone who hardly ever goes on a ride out I can give the other view, and its something which I believe Scorps and Ron were talking about a couple of Wednesdays ago... and this is a perception thing and not a criticism by any means so please don't take it as such.

Whenever rideouts are advertised there seems to be an implication that it's about seeing how fast you can go and how much you can push yourself. Most people are faster than me and are better riders and I don't want to feel like I'm holding everyone up. I know there's a waiting at junctions thing that goes on, but then I'm sure that spoils things for the people who want to make some progress.

That said, of course I wouldn't want every ride to be a training ride, but I think you have to expect people to pick and choose their ride outs according tho their perceived ability and confidence. From stories that I've heard, even gentle canters out turn into 120mph blasts through traffic (ok maybe slight exaggeration) and frankly that's quite offputting. If these are the only stories I've got to go on in terms of ride-outs then I'm sure I'm not the only one to think 'that's no for me thanks' (or maybe I am! )

Like I said this is not a criticism at all, like Kev said we all join for different reasons - I thrive on the social side, but I would rather ride out with one or two other people cos that's what I feel comfortable with.

[Matt zx9]

Okay, Im gonna add a little something that might wind everyone up and insult all and sundry...  :0

For me, at least, TLB has changed since it became more 'cliquey'. Over the last year or so, there's been an influx of people who have all got on really well and go out with each other a lot. This is great - exactly what we want. But from the forum point of view it means that there are lots of in-jokes, wandering off topic, and general banter which isnt particularly welcoming unless you're already on the inside of one of the cliques. Also, the amount of topics which are truly about biking seems to be getting smaller.

To be fair, the wandering off-topic etc has improved a bit since it got silly a few months ago. And maybe the chatroom thing is helping that? (Dunno, can never be bothered to stare at a computer all evening after doing it all day at work).

One way to help this might be to have two forums instead of 'general' - one for banter, and one for biking-related questions etc?


And as for organising ride-outs etc, I think the fact that its always experienced people that organises them does put off newbies and slowbies.

And from a social point of view, I'd like to see more 'smaller, local' evenings - the couple of times we've been out in richmond have been a huge success and maybe things like that can happen more often than 'Big' nights out in the centre of town.



So to summarise, you're all cliquey, too lazy to organise rideouts, and I cant be bothered to go into town to meet you in the pub   '>

Matt
zx9
'>

[Burger]

Quote (Matt zx9 @ Sep. 14 2006,14:42)

For me, at least, TLB has changed since it became more 'cliquey'. And as for organising ride-outs etc, I think the fact that its always experienced people that organises them does put off newbies and slowbies. And from a social point of view, I'd like to see more 'smaller, local' evenings - the couple of times we've been out in richmond have been a huge success and maybe things like that can happen more often than 'Big' nights out in the centre of town. So to summarise, you're all cliquey, too lazy to organise rideouts, and I cant be bothered to go into town to meet you in the pub   '> Matt zx9 '>

'>  '>  YErto point one!

Come on then you newbies, Get some rideots sorted out. Imwiling to go atany pace and i mean any pace aslong as me and my machine are not endangered by some silly undercoifedent monuvere. People have to learn and I learnt by riding with more experienced patient riders. So book em up then!

Smaller doos's. Ok Get it booked then. Some people wont attend cos its too far south but thats ok, alot of our members are west and south of London. I belive Mikey booekd the last one and Trigger booked her one for the birthday night out! Get em booked up Matt 9R

Your last point!!! Yer I agree, So what ya want people to do about it??? No good shoutin the odds is it if you dont put forward some constructive solution forward. Dr MAtt!  '>

[Burger]

Quote (Triggerhappybaby @ Sep. 14 2006,14:16)

Whenever rideouts are advertised there seems to be an implication that it's about seeing how fast you can go and how much you can push yourself. Most people are faster than me and are better riders and I don't want to feel like I'm holding everyone up. I know there's a waiting at junctions thing that goes on, but then I'm sure that spoils things for the people who want to make some progress. That said, of course I wouldn't want every ride to be a training ride, but I think you have to expect people to pick and choose their ride outs according tho their perceived ability and confidence. From stories that I've heard, even gentle canters out turn into 120mph blasts through traffic (ok maybe slight exaggeration) and frankly that's quite offputting. If these are the only stories I've got to go on in terms of ride-outs then I'm sure I'm not the only one to think 'that's no for me thanks' (or maybe I am! ) Like I said this is not a criticism at all, like Kev said we all join for different reasons - I thrive on the social side, but I would rather ride out with one or two other people cos that's what I feel comfortable with.

Yer whatever Trigger. Do I need to point out to you that when you get the feedback from these rideouts it comes from SP*Nk filled men.

"MY WILLY IS BIGGER THAN YOURS"

Do you think there might some exageration in there? Remember riding to Germany? Thats the pace I always ride at and I could not shift you from my mirrors. I agree its daunting but its dooable. People on here are patient and willing to impart very valuable information. SO ROLL UP.

[Biker Biker]

Si I hear what you are saying but some people are organizers and others not, so I only half agree with you.  

I think that there is quite a lot going on, not so many rides but I like the fact that there is no pressure and the atmosphere is encouraging rather than expectation.  I’ve noticed that people tend to organize things in different ways, less assertive people will test the water first mention it at Box or place a post on another thread.  Some people think far in advance and others can only organize the next weekend at a time.  Maybe a good suggestion gets made and then people don’t want to tread on toes of the idea generator?  

Suggestions of outings which haven’t come to fruition / lost momentum and they were good ideas.
Regular Newbie Run
The Bikers Pit Stop Run
Thorpe park
The ride to France
Amsterdam
BMW off roading
Speedway
Fireworks

Why did they lose momentum? Lots of reasons and it is not a criticism, we have lives and stuff that happens to get in the way of biking.  

I liked the poll that MattP did for Box on wed this week.  

Lets face it, I would not be the ideal leader for a run like we did on Sunday.  No one raised an interest about BMW off roading when I mentioned it…. But I did get buying signals for the times that I have mentioned a trip to Spain for next year.  Again I won’t be red leader on the roads but I do intend to do some research, make a suggestion and do the organizing.

So a trip abroad for next year would be a good suggestion

I like the idea of a regular date each month with a different destination, so that people like me can get to know some new roads.  But lets not get upset if all 500 TLB's don't turn up its their loss    

Am not sure that Trig should be allowed to organize stuff we have a lot of easily corruptible people on here.:p

If  Kev can organize more sunny days like he mentioned then I’d be well happy.

Si good for you to raise this and give some of us a kick up the arse…. You may now also find that some people will now feel like they have permission to organize stuff.  Being new you recognize the Family pecking order and there is a real respect for the long timers here.  There is a core of people that keep us together and I am thankful that you and the others (you know who you are) have that enthusiasm.    

'>

[Biker Biker]

Quote (Matt zx9 @ Sep. 14 2006,14:42)

For me, at least, TLB has changed since it became more 'cliquey' . But from the forum point of view it means that there are lots of in-jokes,

Maybe its time to get your arse down to Box or the Ace  '>

You can't complain about feeling left out if you don't make an effort to get involved.

 

[Triggerhappybaby]

Quote (Burger @ Sep. 14 2006,15:04)

Remember riding to Germany? Thats the pace I always ride at and I could not shift you from my mirrors. I agree its daunting but its dooable.

I take your point Rich but I can't say I was overly comfortable, and that's my point really. I felt that I had to stay with you because if I let you get away I would be a) forcing you to slow down to wait for me, and b) lost in Europe. Or maybe I took the opportunity to learn and gain confidence from a surer-footed rider and my riding improved as a result (I can almost hear you mouthing the words now!! )

I don't know maybe my willy isn't very big after all. Or maybe I'm a sociopath but I think I can confidently say after riding for 10 years that big groups aren't my bag of chips.

[Westie]

Simon, things do change, for better and worse, you've been on the site for a lot longer than a lot of us, so you will have seen the changes, you will have seen friends from here start family's for example, which does give you different priorites in life, I wouldn't think for one minute that you would say to Becs after she's been carrying your baby around for 9 months, sorry love, but I'm still going on rideouts every Sunday I have off.
We have 561 members at the moment, we will never meet at least half of them, because of the variety of places/country's they come from and the variety of people they are, the only thing we all have in common is bikes and the love of them.
Every event that is organised by whoever is open to every member whether it's a beach/house party or a rideout and it's up to us which if any we choose to attend, I do agree with Trigger that it was a while before I went on a rideout because of fear of being dangerous to others or just not keeping up, I now know that I need not have worried about either, but that did hold me back at first, so I would imagine that there's newbie's out there still thinking the same now? so maybe as proposed by John a while ago, we could do another newbie run so we can introduce ourselves and guide people who are new to group riding or riding fullstop and show them some more ways to enjoy biking.

[Triggerhappybaby]

Quote (Biker Biker @ Sep. 14 2006,15:23)

Quote (Matt zx9 @ Sep. 14 2006,14:42) For me, at least, TLB has changed since it became more 'cliquey' . But from the forum point of view it means that there are lots of in-jokes, Maybe its time to get your arse down to Box or the Ace  '> You can't complain about feeling left out if you don't make an effort to get involved.

BB I agree with the point you make. And I speak with the confidence of knowing I'm a notorious thread hi-jacker and all round naughty girl. The people that I meet at Box and at Ace I consider to be good friends, and they wouldn't be friends if we didn't have more in common than just biking, e.g. we share senses of humour, life experiences, etc. This friendship spills out into Forum threads - gentle teasing and fun-poking, innuendo and all that gubbins. If I had to talk about bikes and biking all the time I would implode with boredom, so maybe it is time for a new strand of threads (if thats the correct collective noun). The chat room only works if we are all on line at the same time and is rarely feasible.

[fruitskin]

from a newbie POV

new members, old members, members who never come on rideouts, members who occasionally come on rideouts, members who want to do the activities but are too skint, members who seem to be at every event, members who spread their time across other personal commitments, members who come on and get shunned for being to bulshy or forcing their views, members who are very quiet, members who try to organise stuff but never happens, members that organise stuff that does happen...

i reckon a good forum should have all these types of members and more - and thats what we get on TLB - i think TLB is great, but would hate to start feeling 'obliged' to come out to social functions just to be accepted by a clique!!

thought to self..."please dont fall apart TLB, i've just ordered a hoody!!"  

[Matt zx9]

Quote (Biker Biker @ Sep. 14 2006,15:23)

Maybe its time to get your arse down to Box or the Ace  '> You can't complain about feeling left out if you don't make an effort to get involved.

Ahem.... 'getting involved'....

Been here since it was The London Riders... many many many years ago... Organished many many many rides.... Met many many many many many many people off this forum  

Matt
zx9
 '>

[Mr Rizla]

I would have a lot more faith in this thread about doing things.... if more than the half dozen or so  TLB'ers had turned upto the KillSpill rally, the comment is not ment to be inflamitory, however it is a fact. KillSpill was important to each and every one of us.
We may have 561 members, but how many are active, again, its just a comment, im still allowed to comment amn't I?
I dont organise runs because i still dont know the roads, but am learning as fast as I can.

Keep smiling, its nearly the weekend

[MATTP]

I agree in part with everything said above but I don't think there is a problem with the cliquey thing and this is more down to location. e.g. There is more of a chance of me texting Saint to go to the pub than there is of me asking Grandma. But if I had a question in relation to riding I would ask Grandma before Saint. Also there is more chance of me asking Rollo to go to the pub and watch a football game than Saint (even after watching the world cup which he hated until Germany made the semi's '> ). I don't think there is anything more to read into it than people doing different things,living in different parts of the city and having different interests.

As for rideouts I think there has been a lot and as for speed of the rides people are wrong to think that we spend hours speeding around and not looking behind to make sure the group is together. The facts are that people have different speeds and that is life. Just because there is not a ride both days on each weekend is not a problem IMO. But I think that people read too much into things when people are unable to go. For me I have not put my name down on a lot because of the young one and family issues. But for those that know me you would agree that I love going on rides '> .

At the end of the day for me I think that the very reason why we do have a lot of talking on the site is good. There is more to everyone than just their bike. I hope that people do not just talk to me because I have a bike but talk because I am me '>

[Matt zx9]

Quote (Triggerhappybaby @ Sep. 14 2006,15:37)

If I had to talk about bikes and biking all the time I would implode with boredom, so maybe it is time for a new strand of threads (if thats the correct collective noun).

Yup. I dont think the chatting is a BAD thing.... but unless you're already in the conversation, its not necessarily what you want to be reading. I come on here for bikes, not the chatting. Just two different ways of using a forum, no criticism intended. So maybe it can be set up as 'General Chat Forum' and 'Motorbike Chat Forum'.

Or something...  

Matt
zx9
 '>

[Matt zx9]

Quote (Burger @ Sep. 14 2006,15:01)

Smaller doos's. Ok Get it booked then. Some people wont attend cos its too far south but thats ok, alot of our members are west and south of London. I belive Mikey booekd the last one and Trigger booked her one for the birthday night out! Get em booked up Matt 9R Your last point!!! Yer I agree, So what ya want people to do about it??? No good shoutin the odds is it if you dont put forward some constructive solution forward. Dr MAtt!  '>

We'll have to talk seriously about this....




....over a few beers    '>  '>

Matt
zx9
 '>

[Burger]

Quote (Matt zx9 @ Sep. 14 2006,15:54)

Quote (Burger @ Sep. 14 2006,15:01) Smaller doos's. Ok Get it booked then. Some people wont attend cos its too far south but thats ok, alot of our members are west and south of London. I belive Mikey booekd the last one and Trigger booked her one for the birthday night out! Get em booked up Matt 9R Your last point!!! Yer I agree, So what ya want people to do about it??? No good shoutin the odds is it if you dont put forward some constructive solution forward. Dr MAtt!  '> We'll have to talk seriously about this.... ....over a few beers    '>  '> Matt zx9  '>

YER BABY, Get it booked then, we can call it:

Lets sort this FECKIN club out P*** up with dancing, kebabs and falling into rubbsih bags on the road! '>

[simon78]

Having only been a member of this forum for a couple months, everything seems pretty good to me. I think the balance is about right. At the end of the day its about choice and having the option there. I don't think we should go down the hard and fast route of having anything like a runs organiser, social event organiser etc. Everything should be spontaneous.

Whenever I do appear whether it was at The Bridge, before, or at The Ace, now, everyone who is there has accepted me and been very welcoming. I've only been one 1 ride out and I really enjoyed that. The people there looked after me and each other. Shame I haven't been on more, but that's because my life is not governed by my bike.

At the end of the day its nice to know that you can pop up to The Ace on a Friday or log onto this forum and you can chat to people about all sorts of things, not just bikes.

Anyway, hope to see some of you up at The Ace tomorrow evening.

[pieman]

Excellent I knew this would be a goodun.

I'm hearing what you're saying and I've a few things in reply....

Tanya, you don't have to be fast and the best rider to lead a rideout. When we went to Essex Becca lead the ride. It's the first time she's ever lead a rideout (apart from a couple of IAM ones but they're all sensible) she only lead it because I didn't tell her she was leading until we got to the Ace so she didn't have time to worry about it. I knew she knew the roads and thats the key. Enlist 1 or 2 others to go somewhere they've never been before, small rides can be just as good as big ones. I learnt lots from another biker who happened to also have lots of weekdays off, so we went out loads in the week.

Don't forget if you organise a rideout YOU set the pace. Let people know beforehand, and if they choose to come they should respect you and keep to your pace.

Westie, if Becca and I do have a baby I'll be the one forced to stay at home whilst she goes out riding!!! It's one of the things that may decide to have or have not. I have a son of my own and I know how difficult that situation can be, as I said before this isn't really meant to be insulting to anyone, I know we all have different lives, I just want to get an idea of what we can do to make things a bit more interesting.

I know others have organised rideouts, they have been epic ones too - I tend to stick to day out rides, it's good that people are doing different stuff. Wales definitely appeals, but I was at work that day.

Regular days and stuff don't always do well, because of the weather if it gets washed out one week, the next week can be hit or miss. People get huffy cos all the fair weather bikers couldn't be bothered so why should they.........

Again, it's interesting reading what you all have to say. What about the quieter members?

If anyone needs any hints/tips about organising rideouts, or what they should do to learn the routes, or anything at all really, the more experienced members are here for you - just hit the PM button.  Also, I'd like to say I've not been on here that long really, only a couple of years it just seems longer, I just like to organise stuff so I can make sure it's on a day that I'm off!!!